For her first film
score, Anoushka Shankar not only succeeded she excelled. Given that this was a
silent film and a long one, and that her work was to be unveiled live –
without a safety net - the rapturous reception it received at last year’s
London Film Festival Restoration Gala is even more remarkable, yet from the very
start of our discussion I began to understand the reasons why.
I met Anoushka in
her London studio and was very kindly offered tea in a mug on which the
following question was written: What
would you attempt if you knew you could not fail? I put this to
Anoushka as my first question, hoping that other mugs would soon arrive with
further questions… and it evinced the first burst of laughter from a woman who
is as gracious as she is talented; she laughs like a lark but is very focused even
in the face of my random question.
“To fly! I always
had flying dreams as a kid, it was my big obsession…” but as soon as she thinks
of applying this to the real world, she says “I almost wonder if that takes
away the fun of trying to be honest… there’s a tension in trying something new
and unknown, …from not knowing if it’s going to work or not, so it would almost
take the interest away.”
Luckily this ties
right into the question of why you would tackle a project like Shiraz, not just a huge exercise in scoring
but also one that would be given a live premier in front of thousands. But clearly,
it’s a question of “what would you do if you knew you could fail”?
AS I like to
challenge myself and this was two-fold; there was the act of writing my first
film score and having that be augmented by writing for a silent film and how
much more was required for that…Then there was the fact that right from the
beginning it was booked to be a live premier and that really intrigued me, I’d
only seen a couple of films with live music being played and found it really
electrifying. The dual element of having to compose and perform I found fascinating.
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| On stage and on screen at the Barbican. Photograph - and above - from Darren Brade. |
PJ It must be very
hard to not overstate and to draw the focus away from the film; some modern scores
have taken over the narrative in a way but not yours, you kept the balance.
AS Yes, I saw that
you said I hadn’t done that and that’s one of the things I appreciate, so thank
you…
PJ: I wrote that
before I knew I was coming here…
AS (Laughs…) That’s
lucky then!
I grew up as an
accompanist, so much of my playing was as the second sitarist to my father and
so I have a good training in being the side person who is there to augment and
I think that’s really important. Sometimes there is a clash - there can be an ego
desire to play the very best, the most clever line there is and sometimes
that’s just not appropriate in that moment, the choice to do it less or do it a little bit differently… it might not
show in that moment the best of you but it’s best for the bigger picture. I had
that experience in my past, so I kind of knew to do that in scoring a film.
But ultimately,
people are coming to watch a film and if there was ever that experience of them
being torn away from the film by me trying to take attention then that wasn’t
going to work. So hopefully we would come across well…
PJ In some ways
that’s kind of Rule #1 for silent film and yet it is so hard to apply in practice - which is
why your score is so striking.
AS It was a great
way to have a first experience, ‘wow, the Barbican Gala! OK!’ It was an
electrifying night I thought, one of my more memorable shows I think.
PJ I saw Shiraz
again last week and if anything, it’s even more powerful second time around. How
does it compare with other collaborations?
AS The thing that felt scariest was the level of
responsibility involved, with the fact that there was no one there who had been
part of making the film to help instruct me as to what the intentions were. In any given scene I could easily chose the wrong way or read it the
wrong way. So, if something was meant to be a very, obvious signifier of
something to come, for example or if I just noticed it because I saw it 30
times and actually it’s not meant to be you know… Those are things that a
director would tell you how to do as a composer and that director wasn’t there,
so I did feel the weight of that responsibility of wanting to really try and
have the film play as it as intended…
PJ Other directors are available… did your husband (director
Joe Wright) help?
AS Laughs… Yes, I played it for him at the beginning and
then half way through. It was helpful because at the very beginning we watched
it together and he gave me a couple of pointers about pulling out just what I
thought the themes were and always trying to decide that any given scene was
about one of those themes or sometimes more than one that could make for
interesting counter play. That was really helpful because it gave me a bit of a
template to start with… and yet, for any director, it’s not their film so they
still don’t know what the other person intended so there was still that
shooting in the dark feeling, so, I hope we did that the best we could.
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| Himansu Rai and Charu Roy at the Taj Mahal |
PJ I’ve been listening a lot to (Anoushka's latest album) Land of Gold and listening to tracks like Disolving Boundaries you feel like you’re wrapped up in the centre
of a defined musical narrative: it starts in a disparate way before
pulling together with an uplifting and forceful piano line as you're moved along; it’s very effective and very cinematic music.
AS Thank you, I really appreciate that. I’ve heard people use the word cinematic about my music for
years and I can’t say I always knew what that meant but I liked it and I
thought that now I’m writing for a movie I won’t know how to make it cinematic
– laughs – now that I’m thinking differently!
PJ There must be the concern that you over think it and start to
undermine your natural instincts?
AS It was just a question of doing it over and over again
really. One good decision I made was not to start at the beginning… and not to work
in order. So, we ended up with really-random patchworks and then each bit would
inform the next, and kept going back over it and sieving though it and one more
time and one more time… We were able to build in a lot of detail and a lot of
quite specific structure within it.
PJ There’s a lovely bit when Shiraz is chasing after Selima
is kidnapped and there’s a riot of counter-rhythms from the tabla and other percussion.
AS We started with one percussion and then a second
percussion and then a third… we wanted it to feel chaotic whilst he was chasing
and lost… we were quite careful about how we would use surround sound, it was
quite minimal, and we wanted it to have impact when we did it. That was the
first moment where we used an element of surround sound, so the percussion
starts coming form all over the place it enhances the feeling. There’s a moment
when they all charge to chase after him and that’s the point when all the
percussion snaps together and starts playing in unison… Stuff like that was
really fun to get to play with which I would never have thought of if I was
just writing for an album.
PJ The music is so well edited as part of the film and it struck
me that the sitar was almost like the narrator and that when you’d have an
intertitle the sitar would solo, pausing the action between the scenes and preparing
for changes in mood.
AS I’m aware of myself as a band-leader in the context of
it being a live show as well – again I was building this soundtrack knowing
that it would be a live show as well, so I was having to build it in a way that
it would work live, so there was an element of thinking who was playing what
and needing to make sure I could lead in a song… For me I often err on the side
of caution where I’m paranoid that I’m taking up too much space with my
instrument so I almost back out of pieces too much at first when I’m writing
and give all the melodies away to other people. It usually takes someone
else coming in and saying ‘where’s the sitar? I haven’t heard it for three
scenes?!' and I have to go ‘alright!’, I’ll just be sat there and need to put
myself back in. You have to find a balance but no I tend to be quite paranoid
of being too showy.
PJ What other concerns did you have about the project?
AS Time period was another one and stylistic choices. I know I’m already known for making music that’s quite multi-cultural, with an
Indian centre and yet incorporating other elements, so when the BFI commissioned
me I figured it was with an openness to that. I assumed I had the freedom to
chose whatever pallet I wanted to but that was a bit paralyzing at the
beginning… I keep coming back to this but that fact that it was booked as a
live premier was really useful because I had to commit right at the beginning
to what my ensemble was going to be and that meant I knew who I was writing for.
But at the beginning I could have gone in any direction, I could have chosen a
full ensemble of eight purely traditional Indian instruments in order to make a
fully authentic Indian score or I could have gone a bit more Avant Garde and
just gone sitar with a quartet, electronica and made it be a more London-based
soundtrack…
In the end I settled on a mixed Indian and Western ensemble
that would help me give a lot of variation through what’s a very long film. I
made the decision to start very authentically in the way one would expect with
the opening credits: ‘this is an Indian film from the 1920s…’ and slowly from
there to start to bring in developments in a way that wasn’t too jarring…
PJ Does that development come with the emotional flow of the
film?
AS Yes and it was a kind of narrative as again it was following
the story of the film. There is that point in the film that you talked about where Selima is
kidnapped, it’s such a dramatic moment that it felt appropriate to
introduce a new instrumental sound and once the
piano is in you can begin to establish other sounds and so, by the end of the
film you’re in what almost could be a more pop-feeling arrangement with sitar
being like a vocal and having full verse/chorus elements in that final love
scene... but
you had to get there carefully, and if we’d have brought that in at the beginning
it would have felt strange. It’s a process of going one way and
then another and then another before fitting it all together: it feels very
fulfilling I think? I Hope! (Laughs!)
PJ I think the film’s not an obvious film either, it ends
with the love of the Prince and Shiraz and their mutual dedication to honouring
Selima.
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| Charu Roy and Enakshi Rama Rau |
AS I think a lot of people are surprised with which man she
chooses in the end… which is funny when you think of what the film’s about…
PJ …and he seemed a nice prince too, perhaps just a little harsh on
occasion?
AS Yes, just a bit! It does twist and turn in tone and you
can play with that and then you’ve got Daliah, who’s just such a
great character to write for.
PJ Have you seen A
Throw of Dice and Seeta Devi’s other films? It has a soundtrack by Nitin Sawhney
but there could be room for another one?
AS She’s brilliant isn’t she… and, well no! (smiles) I
watched it for Nitin’s score years ago not knowing that I would end up doing
one as well, so I didn’t pay as much attention beyond the music I think. But
yes, she’s wonderful and she gives a different colour. It was nice to have a
couple of moments to play with humour, it’s very serious and it’s very epic and
so on, but we did try and have a giggle now and then!
PJ There are some moments as with the elephant’s foot, when it
starts off a bit funny and then…
AS I found that scene incredible even without music, it was
really well done.
PJ The way it was cut, you were convinced that Shiraz is
going to get squashed… And there’s something about that character too, and the
actor, Himansu Rai, he’s so relate-able, humorous and serious in turns.
AS He’s very likable, you identify with him, he’s the kind of
everyman isn’t he?
 |
| Seeta Devi |
PJ He’s totally naturalistic in the same way that Seeta Devi
is as well… that’s something you find even this early, with some people, whether it’s
because they’re acting themselves, fundamentally, or just acting “well”. You
look at Seeta once and she reaches across the decades and feels very fresh. And
that’s where the music helps… in this connection.
AS Well that’s the aim, you want people to be able to reconnect
with this film and the music is what brings them back into the film. The first
time I watched the film it was silent…I found it amazing and impressive but it was
a very disconnected experience my first time watching a film with absolutely no
sound and I was struck by how two dimensional it felt without the music.
I’m so curious to know what music was played with it at the
time. It’s really wonderful that the BFI have restored it this way… I’m so glad
I did it!
PJ You can say that now… but was there any point when you
thought you’d bitten off too much?
AS Yes, definitely… especially in the final weeks. We had a
big technical issue and had to re-do a lot of the things we had to in the last
three weeks. The sheer volume was really quite insane. So that was the black
moment! I work with incredible people, my soundman and my cellist/pianist who
worked co-arranging a lot of things, were brilliant and we all just pulled in
and did it together.
PJ How do you approach composing for western instruments?
AS I feel woefully ill-equipped in comparison to on the
Indian side, I can’t notate and I have very little understanding of harmonic
structure, so I tend to write melodies and then I’ll work with someone to help
me ground things. They’ll help me understand what I’ve done because it’s more
instinctive than from knowledge, I’ll write the Indian notation for that part of the ensemble
and then I’ll need to work with someone to notate that into western score
 |
| The great Himansu Rai |
PJ We’re no longer talking about “world music”, just music
– “thank goodness!” – and in terms of experimenting and blending styles, your music is innovative
but from the point of view of a virtuoso… always balanced even when it’s pushing
boundaries.
AS When I started moving into, I guess, multi-cultural or
experimental music, that was one of my aims, because I grew up in a classical
world, I know the standard with which people listen to a classical musician and
they expect a certain qualitative element to be there. I hope that anything I
work on, that people listening with other ears, that are trained in other cultures,
would be able to find those same elements of quality in the elements I use even
if I’m not an expert in them, so that’s where the collaborative approach comes
in where I need to work with other experts who can help me make sure of quality
in areas that I might not be aware of.
I love all kinds of music and I’m very open, but it will
make me wince sometimes if someone who is a fantastic musician from a non-Indian
culture, just doesn’t understand what they’re doing when they choose an Indian
melody or line, you know and just stick it on there. It’s a tough call –
sometimes it could sound pretty to someone who doesn’t understand but to
someone who does understand it sounds all wrong or out of tune or expressed
weirdly… all those things, so I know that way of listening and I would hate for
someone to listen to something I’ve used and feel the same way.
PJ I listened to a couple of Mogwai remixes of tracks from Land of Gold - and I love Mogwai - yet they’re
very masculine in their approach but good at structuring sound. They did a good
job – your tune and their sound blend so well.
AS Thank you, I love Mogwai too!
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| Recommended and don't miss the remixes! |
PJ What was the response in India to Shiraz?
AS It was equivalent, it was good. We did 4/5 shows and they
all had the same immediate response that we had at the Barbican at the end. I think that there was perhaps an added element of the
emotion involved in watching something from your own culture that’s been restored.
A lot of people were watching a film from their own country that was older than
anything they’d ever seen before. There were some chiming moments in a couple of the cities
during the first kissing scenes, people just gasped dramatically all the way
across the hall because they weren’t expecting that because we’d generally
grown up with not seeing that… I gasped and my Mum gasped as most people would
never have seen a black and white film with a kiss in it… and then there were
two! So, there were lovely moments like that.
PJ Do you have any
other film projects?
AS I’m touring at the moment, then working on
a new album sometime this summer, so it’s a question of seeing how we go. I definitely
found it very fulfilling to write for a film and would so I love to do more…
whether another silent film falls into my lap or not I don’t know, but film
hopefully. I would be
curious to learn how to write for a non-silent film at this point because, in a
way, that has a completely different set of challenges. That would be
interesting and that might have more scope for opportunity as well.
Shiraz opens on
Friday 2nd February for runs at the BFI and Home, Manchester and
then around the UK until the end of March. A digital release will follow but I
would urge you to not miss it on the big screen and with the full might of the
Shankar score! Full details are on the BFI site.
Details of Anoushka's tour and impressive back-catalogue can be found on her website.
My review of the now legendary Gala Performance is here.
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